Take a look at this quote from the beginning of his book:
According to researchers, between 70 and 88 percent of Christian teens are leaving the church by their second year in college. That's right, modern American Christianity has a failure rate somewhere around eight (almost nine) out of ten when it comes to raising children who continue in the faith. Imagine the alarm if nearly 90 percent of our children couldn't read when they left high school. There wouldn't be room enough at the school board meetings to hold all of the irate parents.
Doesn't that quote just take your breath away? What is going wrong? Why aren't kids who are taken to church their whole lives making God and the church part of their adult lives? It is the job of the parents to pass the torch of faith on to their children. What are we doing wrong? What do YOU think?
This is obviously very important to me because I am in the season of life of raising my children and trying to pass on that torch of faith. And I don't want to get it wrong because knowledge of, love for, and commitment to God are the most important things for them to learn, with more eternal consequences than learning reading, writing, or arithmetic.
Think on this quote for a while, and I'll share some more gleanings in part II.
I think the key words are CHURCH and FAITH. There are millions of people who go to church every Sunday and it because it's the "right" thing to do. They do this with little faith in their hearts. They march in with their children, sit in a pew, do what the others are doing for an hour or so, go home and consider their obligation for the week complete.
ReplyDeleteThere are people who are filled with faith who don't find, or haven't found, or can't find, a church that feels comfortable. So, they pray at home or in the woods or when they rock a baby or when they garden.
Church is a man-made idea where people congregate and give money and "do good works" and learn about what is in the Bible according to the tenants of their chosen church. Since its inception, the Bible has been translated by dozens of scholars and each scholar and church and sect interprets it different from the last. The Bible, itself, has been edited over the centuries. Books have been added and books have been dropped.
Those churches that say that they are solely Bible based disagree with each other. If a young person is seeking to find a church it can be a very confusing situation. How does one pick a church from the smörgåsbord set out before them by society?
All of us would like to believe that if we raise our children in our faith, or our church, those children will continue on with the same devotion into their adult lives. I raised who sons in the Catholic Church and neither is a practicing Catholic. Each has found another avenue to fill their need for faith and God and religion and learning through the Bible. What my children chose to do concerning faith isn't wrong, it's just different from what they grew up with.
I just read an article about young people and the aging Baby Boomers, concerning church and faith. A full 88% of the respondents said that they had a deep faith/belief in God. Only 38% said that they went to church regularly. They stated that they were disillusioned with organized religion.
The respondents said that in their quest for a "church" they became more and more confused because each faith or religion said that their's was the way to God and salvation and that they taught solely through the Bible, although each interpreted the Bible differently. The confusion set in because each said the same thing yet each was so different.
The article pointed out that young people question what they were taught by their parents. It discussed the fact older individuals question what they have been doing all of their lives, and if it had any meaning, especially when they realize that they are at the end of their lives. They don't want to continue to "get it wrong" if they don't have much time left to live.
The article concluded that society may evolve into one with no formal churches or religions and that people will seek their own spirituality by a means other than formal religion or by going to church every Sunday.
I suppose I should give you my take on all of this. Since the beginning of time man has killed each other and stole and waged war all in the name of God. And, because those unimaginable atrocities to their own kind were done as a direct result of God telling them to do so, they felt empowered and righteous. Any war or despicable act that is done "because God told me to do it" is more bloody and unkind and horrific than those done for another reason. Each and every one of us believes that we worship the "right" God, not the one that the other people who do bad things worship. And, those people feel the same way about us. Each of us believes that the Koran or Bible or Torah is THE key to God and is solely God's word.
It's an impossible puzzle to put together because only God has the last piece and He isn't giving it up until we stand before Him at the end of time.
I'm not at all shocked by those stats.
ReplyDeleteGarbage in garbage out...Movies, TV, Products, and adds for such are mostly garbage. How can one tell their children to follow the Lord when they cannot? If it is something you do not want your children to see or do then do not do it. That's right, lead by example. Do as I say and as I do.
(Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.)
Jesus summed up the commands for us:
1 - Love the Lord your God w/ all yoru heart, soul, and mind. and:
2 - love your neighbor as yourself.
For us, we have memorized that first verse as a family (among others) and talk about what that means. We also practace forgiving one another (be kind and tender-hearted, forgiving eachother just as God in Christ also forgave you). Hiding God's word in your heart is very important...why else would God tell us to do so! ha ha...
In all things, God has to be first. The more we know Him, the more we invlove Him in all we do. If we could always see how rebellious and sinful we are in God's eyes we would see how much He love us, and how much He suffered, through Jesus! that is love and who can deny it? Perhaps the 'great falling away' is caused by a lack of understanding the gospel, which is Jesus. 'My people are being destroyed for lack of knowledge'
Another thought is this (Re, college education), just because one is in authroity does not mean they are correct. And just because the majority believe somethign also does not mean it is correct.
Matthew 7:13"Enter through the narrow gate. For [B]wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.[/B] 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
I don't want to derail and if you feel this is out of place you can remove it Becky.
ReplyDelete-------------------------------
Mimi,
From the OT through the NT, people have been gathering together to worship the Lord and to bring offerings and tithes. In the NT, followers of Jesus started meeting on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 1:1-2) vs the Sabboth, to commemorate the risen Lord. This is not man's idea to come to gether to worship the Lord, God told them to do it.
Also, God's word is without error and there have been no books added or removed 'over the centeries'. God's word is clear, unchanged, and unaltered. Yet man chooses to suppress the Truth and turn to those who itch their ears so they can continue to 'feel good' about themselves. Pride is a killer.
I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except throug me. ~ Jesus
No other book (well, 66 books in one) is right. How can I be so narrow? What other book has the risen Lord? What other book tell of God reaching out to a sinful man? What other book tells of things to come and that we have seen fullfilled and are being fullfilled...with out error? Just the Bible.
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
I think many claim to be Christians just because they sit in a church and listen to someone (who may or may not know God) tell about what God is like. They may know about God but that does not make them a follower or Christ. Knowing Him and becoming like Him does. Depending upon His work and resting on what He has done (He is the true Sabboth in which we can rest)...that makes one a Christian. Sitting in a garage does not make me a car, nor does sitting in chruch make one a Christian.
Everyone needs to (for their own sake) evaluate who Jesus is to them.
Scott,
ReplyDeleteHow funny! I have used the car in the garage analogy before myself!
I think you would really like this book. In fact, in his "solution" section, he uses the very verses you quoted as the basis for his family life. (Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor.)
I'm so glad that you and Lisa have "returned home" if you know what I mean!
Let's see if I can recount this correct. Initially, after the death of Jesus, and for a few centuries, His followers were worshiping; however,they were all using different books/writings, all were good, but none were consistent. After the death of Jesus many scholars wrote their accounting of the same event, each with a little twist in one direction or the other, but all very much alike. The Catholic pope at the time(sorry, I forgot his name) wanted all people to be reading the same text for worship so he commissioned that, from the 100s of books known at the time, a Bible be compiled in the fourth century.
ReplyDeleteKing James, wanting a Bible for the Anglican church, commissioned a Bible to be translated and written. Some books of the Catholic bible were dropped had something to do with King James not being in agreement with some of the text and laws. To this day the Catholic Bible contains more books than the Protestant Bible.
Scott, each and every one of us believes that we are reading the correct text and are worshiping the correct way and how God's law demands. You could find thousands, maybe millions, of people who would be just as zealous as you who are Jewish or Muslim or Catholic, etc.
Now, I am not saying that I believe those people are right, but if you compare their enthusiasm to yours, and others, it would be parallel. Yes, you quote your Bible and demonstrate what people should do and how people should worship, but the other people can do the same with the same level of enthusiasm.
My point is this, when we become intolerant and do not listen to others and their point of view, often times people turn their back and walk away. Or worse, a war begins that continues for centuries such as the one in Iraq between the Shiites and Sunnis who have been at each other's throats since the eleventh century.
We lead people to God through gentle persuasion and example(in my opinion). We cannot just regurgitate biblical verses that we have memorized as a reason for someone to follow us to Christ. If I saw two churches side by side with the parishioner's of one walking into service with dour faces and the other church being filled with happy people, which one do you think I'd choose, initially? Now, I say initially because I may find once I am in that church that I do not like it, but they'd get me in the door at least once.
Gentleness, tolerance, goodness, sharing, love, kindness and happiness...all of those things attract people one to the other. Scott, a church is a building. It's what is inside that church that's important and it needn't be inside that building to be a church.
I wrote something in response to Becky's post. What you wrote made me feel as though you were intolerant of my opinion and used scripture to support your comments. I support your right to respond to me but I still don't know why you responded as you did. It felt off topic or argumentative giving Becky the option of removing what you said.
Bottom line with children, church, etc. Once those children are adults, no matter how they were brought up, they will make their own choices. Once they make those choices, and if you don't agree, you have two choices. Either accept your adult child's choice or risk alienating them.
I stand by my original post in that young people are questioning organized religion and older adults are questioning what they have been believing now that they are at the end of their lives. I didn't do the study or organize the stats. I just shared what I had read. I believe it was thought provoking. Something all of us should take heed of if we have a family and wish that our children would continue with the faith we practiced in our home.
Quoting scripture is good; however, if you need to convince someone to come to God, that alone won't do it. We all know what most laws are but people still break them daily.
A little bit of history:
ReplyDelete1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.
My first off-the-cuff answer to my question is that we are segmenting church from life. We are not to simply attend church, we are the church. I think we need to focus more on Deut. 6:7 (which interestingly enough, comes right after the Love the Lord... and Love your neighbor...verses). "Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, and when you lie down and when you get up." We can't speak of God for only one hour a week and expect our children to claim God as a priority in their own lives. Yes, the gathering together is important (Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing...Heb 10:25), but we need to make those few hours seamless with the rest of our life. For example, kids notice if Mom and Dad talk one way on Sunday morning and then watch a movie glorifying ungodliness on Tuesday.
ReplyDeleteAs far as denominations, Mimi, that really isn't a big issue with me, as long as the church is faithfully teaching the Bible. I've attended several different denominational churches. They are kind of like states in America. Michigan isn't Ohio, but it's still part of the United States. Wesleyan isn't Church of Christ isn't United Brethren, but they are still faithfully preaching the Gospel, and part of the body of Christ. The type of music, what you must do for membership, and how often you partake of Communion doesn't matter. Having a Biblical worldview is what matters (more on that later). I just want my kids to have a personal faith and a Biblical worldview.
The article you quoted sounded interesting. Where did you read it? I think that young people saying they don't attend church/practice religion because it's too confusing is a cop-out though. I bet they make plenty of other decisions in their lives where they have to sort out confusing facts, and they just do it. I think it's just a good excuse - after all it is easier to sleep in on Sunday morning and then enjoy the paper over a leisurely breakfast than it is to commit to getting everyone out of the house on time, and committing to worship, pray, care, give, and serve with and in a body of imperfect believers.
I've become a bit of a history buff too, now that I don't have to take a test on it!
ReplyDeleteThe Bible was canonized a few centuries after Jesus in response to a heretic spreading his teachings. For a book to be accepted into canon, it had to be accepted as divinely inspired and pass three tests:
1. The Bibliographical Test (the accuracy of the copies that are compared, although there is a time span between them and the originals).
2. The Internal Test of Reliability (the author verifies or disqualifies himself by known factual inaccuracies or contradictions).
3. The External Evidence Test of Reliability (the document is authentic in regard to historical and archeological evidence or other writings).
The Apocrypha was not originally accepted into the canon. It was not written in Hebrew like the rest of the OT, it was not considered divinely inspired, and there has not been evidence it was quoted/taught from by Jesus, the OT Jewish leaders, or the early NT church leaders. It was translated into the Latin Bible (5th century?), but everyone at that time was clear that it was additional material, providing additional historical context and could be profitable to read.
It was not canonized until 1546 by the Council of Trent. Only the Catholic Church considered it scripture at this time - the Protestant movement, for ex. Luther and later the controversial King James, considered it religious writing that could be profitable to read. It was later removed from from the KJV Bible because the Puritans (or was it Separatists?) were afraid people would consider it to be Scripture, and not simply additional religious writings.
Catholic vs. Protestant Bible isn't a hill I'm willing to die on. (How do you like that historical reference;-P) I don't study the Apocrypha because the books that are accepted by both Catholics and Protestants are sufficient for teaching of salvation, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness. If someone wishes to read the Apocrypha, do so, but treat it just as you would any other religious book from a bookstore - keep what agrees with Scripture and disregard what doesn't. (The Bereans...received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. Acts 17:11)
I read those stats in an AARP magazine. Gee, I always pass those on to someone else to read but I'll see if I can find it online and will send you the URL.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, Becky, God should be brought into every day conversation with children in a matter-of-fact way, just as you would casually talk about other things with them, ie., "Gee, didn't God do a good job when He made this flower? He sure had a good idea." I know that's simplistic, but that's what I mean. Talking about God should be easy, not forced and certainly not just for an hour on Sunday or whatever day you choose to worship. God is all around us in each and every thing we do and everywhere we go. So, bringing God into conversation should be easy for parents right from the get-go.
As far as any religion is concerned, I don't think it matters as much as what is in a person's heart and soul. There are is good and bad in each and every church or religion if you look hard enough. My sons did not follow my faith, but that's OK with me because God is God. What building they walk into on a Sunday morning isn't as important as what they, and their families, bring home with them.
Each of my sons worships with their families and that is the important part to me. My grandchildren have God woven into the fabric of their daily lives, and that is important to me.
Just to clarify though, Michaelene, what's in a person's heart and soul has to be Biblical "spirit and truth."
ReplyDeleteWhen you say that there is good and bad in every church and religion, it comes across as you think all religions are equally acceptable. Is that what you intended? Or are you only comparing Christian, Bible-believing denominations? Or perhaps comparing individual worship customs? I'm not sure exactly which you mean here.
I'm asking because I think this is a trap for society today. Somehow, it has been decided that intolerant is worst thing someone can be, and the only acceptable stance is to say whatever one believes about religion/spirituality is OK. The basic truths must be Biblical or they are wrong, whether one believes that now or they find out in eternity. Jesus said I am THE way, so even if my Muslim neighbor is a lovely kind person, Mohammed is not the way to heaven, and the Koran is not truth.
In our society, Christianity has been so Oprahfied that many people equate "being spiritual" with "being Christian." God wants His followers to worship in Spirit and in Truth (John 4:24). America likes the spirit part, but the Truth part, not so much. I've had a little experience with that, and so it's important to me, on my blog, that I make that clear.
I cannot and will not and never will condemn a whole population to hell if they do not believe as I do. It is not my place and not my job and very preposterous of me to think that I know who will end up in hell or heaven by virtue of what they believe or their religious practices. The task of condemning someone to hell is God's job, not mine. So, I guess you could say that if someone doesn't believe exactly as I do, I cannot in good conscience, make any statement as to what will happen to their soul at death. Not my job. God's job.
ReplyDeletePeople hung Jesus on a cross because He was different and had different thoughts and acted differently. I don't think I want to be counted as a member of such a group.
So, I guess I have to say that I believe what I believe but I don't believe that I have the authority to say who is and who isn't saved. Only God knows what is in a person's heart and what is in that heart at the moment of death.
I don't like to throw stones at people for how they worship. Now, to clarify, I am not talking about people who harm children or animals during services, etc. I am talking about the majority of accepted religions worldwide. If someone has not been exposed to the Bible or the teachings of Jesus and hops around a plant on Sunday as their method of worship, I cannot and will not condemn that person. It is not my God given right to do such a thing to another human being.
If you want to delete this post, that's OK because I don't think it's what you wanted me to say. The bottom line for me is that I do not believe that the Bible gives me the right to belittle, to condemn to Hell, to nullify someone's religion just because they do not believe as I do. All too often Christians think that the Bible gives them the right to do unspeakable things to other human beings because God gave them that command or right. I don't have that right and I never will.
The Christian belief in the Bible is just as strong as the Jewish belief in the Torah and a Muslim's belief in the Koran, etc. Each of us believes that we have THE book and THE true way to Heaven. I'm doing the best I can with what I have and with what I believe. I am a Christian, always have been, always will be, but I do not have the right to say who is and who is not going to sit at the feet of God at the end of the world.